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| SFUK SFUK Staff (9/18/00 5:44:03 am) 195.92.67.65 Reply | Edit | Del All |
Why are
you doing this to us?
Dear ArmBarredTooOften, aka Flying Armbar, Rio Deniro, Magazino9mm, Eazzie, GingerGomez, Levi Lopez, AmericanPieEater, CreamOfTheCrop, El Loco Hombre, Waregachi, Optic Feed etc, etc. aka Choke, Regrettably we have to ask you to stop using multiple screen names to troll and spam this forum. Can you please explain WHY are you doing this to us? We have not banned your IP or screen name as you are entitled a right to reply in public if you wish. Thank you. SFUK Staff.
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Flashmotors
 SFUK member (9/18/00 8:40:58 am) 152.163.213.201 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Dear SFUK, what does AKA CHOKE mean? thanks flashmotors buy, sell, hire OR just enquire www.flashmotors.com "just remember when in doubt, behind every obstacle, there is a miracle"
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| ubik SFUK member (9/18/00 8:48:56 am) 132.146.222.194 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
It means these are all aliases of Choke
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| Levo SFUK member (9/18/00 8:54:37 am) 62.254.0.5 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
All these names (choke included) have the same IP's, which means they are the same person or are all using the same computer (which would be rather strange). Either way, he is being a pain. Go check out the threads where he says sfuk "sucks" and "is crap" under one name and then starts a bunch of other threads promoting his site. And don't forget the threads where he talks to himself about how great his products are. And this isn't the half of it!
Edited by: Levo
Edited by: 9/18/00 8:54:37 am |
droc
 SFUK member (9/18/00 8:54:29 am) 193.120.120.2 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Isn't Armbarred too often the screen name used to say that this site was @#%$? Went something like,..."used to be good but is crap now, I'm off to the UG" If ya Smelllllllllllll what Droc is distillin'
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| Ollie SFUK member (9/18/00 9:34:33 am) 212.140.9.132 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Rumbled!
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| abs SFUK member (9/18/00 9:49:33 am) 194.75.174.3 Reply | Edit | Del |
Really?
OH My GAWD!.. that sucks if its true.
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| fullcirclemaa SFUK member (9/18/00 9:54:28 am) 212.17.32.17 Reply | Edit | Del |
im confused?
let me get this right... all these "users" are the one person, or at least different people using the same computer? just seems weird that all the above names are having different conversations with each other on the choke forum when they are the same person? im not taking sides here - im just bloody confused!!! rob.
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| Guru1 SFUK member (9/18/00 10:09:15 am) 195.92.32.83 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: im
confused?
Ok, Hold on a minute, i dont think this is as clear cut as it's being made out. Paul is currently heading down to New Orleans to catch up with Ian & Leigh at the UFC, so wont be able to defend himself. Paul logs on from his office PC and i know that several of the employees also log on and post on both SFUK and Choke. Perhaps you should speak to Paul directly on his return, i personally dont think that this needs to become a "thread" open for all to discuss. Please SFUK, lock this thread or delete it, then when Paul returns, discuss it with him then. Others continue to antagonise by posting under different names, it goes on all the time here, it doesnt need to become a public issue. regards Julian
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| SPENNA SFUK member (9/18/00 10:13:01 am) 212.85.20.2 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
If he got found out, I best stop using 2 user name's. Some one may find out that Spennauk1 and Spenna, are in fact the very same person!!! lol Spenna (or is it spennauk1)
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| Guru1 SFUK member (9/18/00 10:24:28 am) 195.92.32.83 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
I thought as much Spenna! Shame on you!
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Dexterc
 SFUK member (9/18/00 10:47:40 am) 199.89.64.40 Reply | Edit | Del |
That's
the trouble with IP's
Ip's don't lie and if the admins say this is what's happening then I beleive them. However it doesn't have to be Paul from choke it could be someone else using his computer but what are the chances of someone getting onto his computer at regular intervals to post crap on here? All without him being aware? For a start this site uses cookies to remember your user name so whoever logged in from his computer would have left their last username logged in for which he would not know the password. I would find it strange if I came to my computer to post on the sfuk forum and found someone else has been logged in. I am not saying that Paul is a troll. I am saying something fishy is going on here. Is their a t-shirt war going on here? Is Choke athletic trying to undermine the current champion of UK NHB fight wear? All I have to say to that is ditch the cheesy sew on shoulder badges dude it's SFUK all the way baby and you can take that to the bank because the ROCK said so! YEahhh!!!!
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| SFUK SFUK Staff (9/18/00 11:21:33 am) 195.171.139.197 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Good Morning Julian, Let's try and address some of your very valid observations: There are 2 main sets of IP's that are identical in all those screen names. And a third IP that is used less often, but again it's repeated in those screen names. No other IP's are used. Consider that some of these posts are made out of office hours that would lead to the deduction that one of the IP's is a home PC. Don't tell us that OpticFeed, the 'designer based in New York ', has been popping in and using the same PC's? "Others continue to antagonise by posting under different names" True, but not nearly that many names, and they don't send me charming emails, sms messages etc me asking for help to produce shorts etc. They also haven't allegedly offered a major UK promoter money specifically to ban SFUK from the said promoter's next big event. What do you think of that? I hope that helps. Thanks for asking. You were correct in your latest newsletter, there does seem to be a bit of underhand dealing in UK MMA. Thanks for the heads up. I trust you will be 100% behind us here. Dexter, Thanks for the support . We're a news site, T shirts are very much subordinate to that objective. There wasn't a T shirt war as far as we were aware, but then we were only looking in front of us. If anything Choke T's have had more advertising on here than SFUK ones. Go figure. SFUK
Edited by: SFUK
Edited by: 9/18/00 11:21:33 am |
| SFUKA SFUK Staff (9/18/00 12:13:11 pm) 62.254.0.5 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Julian, a) these screenames post from the same computers b) they all support Choke, say almost the exact same things and trash his 'competitors'. c) most of the names were registered at the same time! d) they seem to post only when choke has access to a computer! Some points - 1. SFUK is not business. No one makes a wage and we run at a loss. 2. Selling products is a secondary part of the site. We try to be a resource for European martial artists. 3. When we heard that there was going to be a UK fightwear company we thought it was a great idea and supported it by doing an interview and letting him promote his stuff on the forum. Given that we are not competition and have tried to help him out why is he trying to shut us down? OFFERING MONEY TO EXCLUDE SFUK IS @#%$ING LOW. You wouldn't believe what this guy has been doing. He is prepared to ruin the UK scene as long as he is the only one left standing. We've let it slide but he is attacking us and we have to let people know. Those that have been bought with a couple of free t's should be more choosey about your friends. We admin are supposed to neutral but this has really upset me. We (admin AND you guys) work damn hard for this site and the scene.
Edited by: SFUKA
Edited by: 9/18/00 12:13:11 pm |
| Mr
M SFUK member (9/18/00 11:52:43 am) 195.60.20.33 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Understand.
Hello, Dont worry sfuk, you have alot of respect for the way you conduct your business on here. You are now experiencing exactly what the TFF & Mr Hasdell went through. You have our support 100% Reality of Kakutougi
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| Guru1 SFUK member (9/18/00 11:56:33 am) 195.92.32.83 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
All i said was that you should take this up with Choke personally, yet you now decide to involve me? I dont make tee shirts, i dont sell tee shirts, i dont run a forum. Your points are better served to Choke directly, not on this forum as Choke is not here to defend himself. SFUKA, this thing about paying a promoter not to have you at a show, it doesnt make sense? As you say, your not a retailer, so why would it be that important not to have you there, your not in competition right? No one is ruining the UK scene? thats a tad over dramatic dont you think? Everyone on this forum has done soemthing bad at some point, theres been lots of underhanded dealings, bull@#%$ting, blagging and much much more. I dont see this as a personal thing SFUK/SFUKA, there is no reason for it to be? "Without SFUK there would be no Choke" come on, i ahve worked very hard promoting Choke, helping them out, as have Choke themselves, as have others, so i think that statement is a little off? If it is as clear cut as you say it is, i think it is just over zealousness. A new company starting out, doing all that they can to make it work. By slating their products, questioning their motives and questioning peoples associations with Choke i think it is getting blown way out of proportion. If it is going to become personal, then this will result in a huge divide and the sport will suffer.
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| SFUK SFUK Staff (9/18/00 12:53:55 pm) 195.171.139.197 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
"SFUKA, this thing about paying a promoter not to have you at a show, it doesnt make sense? As you say, your not a retailer, so why would it be that important not to have you there, your not in competition right?" Julian. You're right, SFUK is not a retailer first, it's a news site first. That's why paying a promoter not to have us at a show is puzzling. There'd be less news on here. And as you use much of the news on here for your newsletter then I'm sure you're concerned about this too. Competition is a word that you have used, not us. As stated before, Choke have been made welcome here. Once again you are correct in emphasising all your hard work that has gone into promoting Choke. Well done. I'm glad you are condemming personal grudges, as you say "this will result in a huge divide and the sport will suffer" Well said. SFUK
Edited by: SFUK
Edited by: 9/18/00 12:53:55 pm |
| digby SFUK member (9/18/00 1:06:36 pm) 193.116.254.201 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
If this is true then it is totally sfuking out of order. at a loss for words Digby
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| ChokeAthletic SFUK member (9/18/00 1:16:01 pm) 205.188.198.24 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Why are you doing this to us? What exactly? Unfortunately, Paul, who really should be replying to this, is en route to New Orleans for the UFC. It, therefore, falls to me to respond to something which should have, in all honesty, been kept private. However, as Jon wishes to drag this issue into the public domain, so be it. Firstly, and for the record, the Choke office has, not one but five computers in seperate offices. All bar one of these offices is occupied by employees who are, without exception, involved in the martial arts scene. All of these people were given permission to post on the Choke site their own, original and unexpurgated thoughts on the MMA scene. It appears that some or all of them have also posted on SFUK. In addition, Paul has his own computer at home as do I. Our 5th office computer is open to all visitors and, again for the record, we have had many, many visitors since the advent of Choke. Visitors mainly from the U.K. but several from Brazil and U.S.A. also France and Russia and, incredibly, India and China. For the record, our office is open for eighteen hours per day as we run 2 other businesses from base. However, I know for a fact that Paul does post under 2 different aliases. Not my cup of tea but, still, so what? I know of at least 4 people who do the same. Jonathan addressed Julian by name when he had posted under the alias Guru 1. SFUK seem to be suggesting that these aliases have been used for one purpose - to discredit SFUK. This smacks of paranoia. For the record, and please prove otherwise, only ONE message was EVER posted saying anything derogatory about SFUK. From what I can see, all other posts were designed to create interest, to provoke response, to raise the profile of MMA. Why are SFUK only concentrating on the one negative thread? I believe in being completely upfront so let's speak upfront, for the record. Jonathan refers to certain matters that clearly need addressing. 1. The offer of money to a leading promoter to "specifically" stop SFUK from selling at his next show. This is TOTALLY UNTRUE! The truth is this: The promoter referred to can only be Andy Jardine. Why not name him Jonathan? We were told by Andy that at the Iron Man comp we would be sole vendors. On the day, we found that we were expected to share space with SFUK. We didn't complain, we just got on with it. However, in view of the fact that we paid a percentage of each sale for the right to be sole vendor and were not, we simply stressed to Andy that, at his next show, we should have exclusivity if the same deal were to stand. What is the problem with that? If Andy wishes to accept a similar deal from SFUK that it his perogative as a promoter trying to cover costs but to suggest that we are paying to exclude SFUK specifically is a distortion of the truth. 2. With regard to shorts, we did speak to Jonathan about the possibility of doing something together but only after he first brought the subject up while interviewing us for SFUK. Check the tape Jonathan. It's all on there. You said that you would look into the possibility of doing something together. Unfortunately, no more was heard from Jonathan despite several requests. Why? At Iron Man comp, we again spoke to Jonathan about doing something together. This time we were actually quoted prices for a particular U.S. make and also told that enquiries would also be made in Italy. We even agreed to cover two thirds of the suggested costs. Is this not all true Jonathan? Unfortunately, once again, we heard no more from Jonathan, again, despite several requests. The U.K. scene is a small scene. As such, there is no real competition regarding fight wear. That is why Choke was formed, to fill a void. In my opinion, we have done everything possible to promote the MMA scene and the SFUK site. Check the Choke Zone. We even carry the SFUK banner and refer all visitors to the SFUK site. In addition, as soon as Choke found out that SFUK aka Jonathan was unhappy about Choke sponsoring Paul and Alexis at London Shootfighters, Choke pulled out. At Choke, we do not want to tread on anybody's toes. We are willing and able to work with anybody who wishes to work with us. I thought that included SFUK. There is more than enough room for everybody. There is so much petty jealousies in the game that we do not wish to become a part of it. Paul is guilty. Guilty of trying to promote his own site and of attempting to engender more interest in the scene as a whole. Jonathan, you ask Julian for his backing on this. For what? In all honesty, don't you think that you have got this a little out of proportion? I have tried to put things in their true perspective, despite feeling pretty angry. Maybe, Dexter would like a t-shirt war to evolve but we are both about so much more than that. I believe that we both want the scene to prosper. No more , no less. This is something that should have been resolved behind closed doors. Chas at Choke
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| Dom
B SFUK member (9/18/00 1:49:13 pm) 195.92.198.76 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Why should closed doors come into it at all? The members of this site deserve to know if the several people on their threads are actually the same person. Better to have it out in the open where all can clearly have their say rather than for people who this affects to catch fragments of it on the MMA rumour mill. Everyone knows that Guru1 is Ian Freeman's manager and the head of TMA. He has made no attempt to hide this so I don't see what that has to do with anything either. Many people on this forum know each other personally as well as through the internet and people's given names are often used in threads here. I don't understand why you've raised this point.
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| ChokeAthletic SFUK member (9/18/00 2:11:25 pm) 205.188.198.49 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
It was just an example Dom. No more, no less. I don't mind things being aired provided the facts are checked first. This clearly was not the case here.
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| SFUK SFUK Staff (9/18/00 2:19:36 pm) 195.171.139.197 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Good afternoon Charles. Thanks for your post, Firstly, SFUK, the site, is not just Jonathan. There are 6 of us working hard on this, they deserve full credit. I just happen to be the one you have met. We did not wish to drag this into public domain, but as we were not given much of a chance to address these problems you have with us in private so be it. The IP's are from 2 computers, with another one sometimes used. All the IP's correspond with all of the screen names as stated above. Thanks for naming Andy Jardine. I hope he doesn't mind. As for the money issue, that's what we were told by Andy. If it's untrue then you have my apology. On the day of Iron Man, we were given choice of tables, we even decided to give you the best one. As for being sole vendors or not, that's news to me. We were certainly not told this. As for the shorts I agree that I offered to help you with shorts. I tried to be as helpful as possible. The next time we spoke about it was at the Iron Man. And I got on the case straight away, before leaving for a week in Spain. Kikskin can confirm this. When I got back I found out that Paul had already contacted Kikskin and was negociating his own production. That's why you didn't hear from me that week. That's the ONLY time I didn't get back to you. I didn't need to. All this Paul knows already. However Paul did email me after, asking for help in getting a lower price. Then the IP problem came up and here we are. And I'm more sad about it than you are. "In addition, as soon as Choke found out that SFUK aka Jonathan was unhappy about Choke sponsoring Paul and Alexis at London Shootfighters, Choke pulled out." No, I wasn't unhappy about Choke sponsoring Paul and Alexis, like I said to Paul@Choke, any money they receive is great. All I said was I would be unhappy if Choke sponsored them with T shirts because Paul & Alexis had asked SFUK to print some for them. Paul was very understanding and said he'd be p1ssed if the boot was on the other foot. Then Alexis phoned me and said both of you had been up to London Shoot and offered him the sponsorship anyway. This wasn't a biggie, but hey, there's your answer. I agree with you, that we want the scene to prosper. Hope that helps. SFUK.
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| Levo SFUK member (9/18/00 2:49:59 pm) 62.255.228.149 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Eloquently put Chas but not what I'd call the truth. I'm with DEX, go SFUK lol
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| ChokeAthletic SFUK member (9/18/00 3:02:41 pm) 205.188.198.57 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Jonathan Thanks for responding. However, again, the facts presented are not quite correct. We did go to London Shootfighters and we did discuss sponsorship with them but not AFTER you had told us your thoughts, BEFORE. In any event, we backed off as soon as you told us. In fact, we received bad vibes because we did back off. Paul from Choke had to personally contact Alexis to explain why we had withdrawn and to clear the air. With regard to the shorts situation Jonathan, Paul only contacted the U.S.A. because we hadn't heard from you. He told you of the situation as soon as you returned. As a company, we have received numerous inquiries foe shorts and wanted to do something with you sooner rather than later. To say that we are out to destroy the opposition is just ridiculous. To say that we want to be the only ones left standing is even more ridiculous. How can you say that you did not have the chance to address things privately? You started this thing publicly. It looks as though you have been letting this build up when one phone call could have cleared the whole thing up. In any case, I reiterate: Choke are here to help the scene, not to damage it in any way. We want to work with anybody who wishes to do the same. This most definitely includes SFUK, if they wish. Chas at Choke
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| digby SFUK member (9/18/00 3:30:16 pm) 193.116.254.201 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Chas - good replies, one thing's puzzling me tho' - for a company that supports MMA, it strikes me as a little strange that you have showed no interest into finding out which visitor/worker at your office would post something potential damaging/slanderous to one of the main MMA resources in this country. I know we seem to agree that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but seems to be a little like endangering your own business - having a worker being so anti-MMA - kind of odd. then again it could've been a visitor - but they must be visiting an awful lot to be posting that much. intrigued Digby
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| Guru1 SFUK member (9/18/00 3:34:27 pm) 195.92.32.83 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Dom, good point, but there are alot of others out there who use a couple of screen names, some who are part of the SFUK set up, so its not just Choke. SFUK, if you dont want me to use the info from the site on a news letter i send out promoting SFUK just say, i will stop. I make nothing from the newsletter and it takes @#%$ing ages putting in each address in blocks of 10 so my lap top can send them out without crashing!!! Alot of what appears to be the problem appears to be misunderstandings, i hope Choke and SFUK can sort it out. SFUK, i gave Choke the number for Kikskin as he said you hadnt come back to him. The urgency was due to me putting pressure on Choke to get some shorts sorted out for Ian and the team. We all have jobs other than MMA and i know i cant always act as quickly as i would. I hope this is one issue resolved? Regards Julian
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| SFUK SFUK Staff (9/18/00 3:53:06 pm) 195.171.139.197 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Hi Charles and Julian, Thanks for your replies. I'm sorry I must be brief, I'm working and I should be able to reply better tonight. Julian, I have not mentioned anything about stopping you using news from here. Please don't start something from nothing. And get a decent mailing application LOL. The shorts issue was resolved by Paul and myself last week. It's not an issue here. I did not bring it up. Charles, As for the London Shoot issue, Alexis called me AFTER the emails with Choke. That's all I know. Again this is not an issue here, and again I did not bring this up. Back later. SFUK
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| Guru1 SFUK member (9/18/00 4:17:42 pm) 195.92.32.83 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
Ok, so you were emphasising a point, i hear ya, the door swings both ways! But your right, it isnt and shouldnt be an issue between us. My mail server rights have been restricted, i do need new software, ideas?
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| SFUKING SFUK Staff (9/18/00 6:01:44 pm) 62.252.32.4 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
I apologise if I reveal my naiivity in all things business related here but I'll continue anyway. Why would anyone bargain for exclusivity at an MMA event (or two) if their foremost concern was the furtherance of the sport? Especially when SFUK has done nothing but promote ChokeAthletic with heartfelt sincerity since the day they came into being. Anyone who really wanted to see the sport grow would recognise the need for as many players as possible. Indeed that is why SFUK's raison d'etre has always been utmost neutrality. To attempt to exclude a non-profit making organisation, who has spent a great deal of effort and money with the aim of doing nothing more than seeing this sport flourish, smacks of extreme short-termism. What could possibly be acheived by such a divisive tactic? Keeping Andy's name out of this was because he's done nothing wrong here. Choke has. Widening the scope of the argument by naming names, Charles, once again seems nothing short of a 'divide and conquer' campaign. As for the IP issue. I don't believe that anything other than dirty tricks were afoot. If I'm being unfair here and, as Choke would have us believe, all anti-social behaviour was a result of their staff then I see Choke as none the less culpable. If SFUK let their staff run around, abusing all and sundry then SFUK would not deserve the reputation for unbiased fairness that they have worked so hard to acheive. Accordingly, I don't beleive that Choke should be deserved of such a reputation until they can fully account for either the actions of their staff or themselves. At every step of the way SFUK has expended effort and bandwidth to help ChokeAthletic set themselves up as a legitimate business interest in the MMA world. It now appears that we have been double dealt and undercut at every possible opportunity. Your behaviour, Choke, has been both online and offline, frankly appalling. You seem, above, to be making too many explainations for too many misdemeanors for this to just be SFUK's 'paranoia'. I, for one, am mortified that such a divisive force has entered into the world of UK Mixed Martial Arts. Just when we thought we were getting our act together as well. I'm depressed by the whole episode and hope that the scene as a whole does not suffer as a result of these behaviours. SFUKING
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| Pooch
SFUK member (9/18/00 6:14:42 pm) 62.7.47.9 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
This is a damn shame. We all know that the UK MMA scene isn`t that big but surely there is enough room for every one. I have known the SFUK admins for quite a while and they are all straight up guys, they do not make money off this site, they do it out of love for the sport. I wish Paul the best of luck with his company and I am sure he will do well. However I feel it quite underhand that you should troll someone else's forum just to drum up support for your own. As for the multiple screen names, well there is a chance that some of Paul`s staff may be sfuking around but I find it highly unlikely that AmericanPieEater, (one of Paul`s friends from the States,) should come to the UK nearly every evening just to use Paul`s PC, surely it would be cheaper just to buy one !!!!!!!!!!!! SFUK you can rely on my backing 100% I hope this matter can be settled in a civilized way. James Poole AKA Pooch & Pooch2
Edited by: Pooch
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| Dom
B SFUK member (9/18/00 7:20:38 pm) 195.92.67.65 Reply | Edit | Del |
Re: Why
are you doing this to us?
This is just an observation but none of the screen-names mentioned have posted anything at all about this. Did the whole office all go to America with Paul?
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